Introduction:

[00:00:00] Dr. Adeola Oke: Are you like most busy people stressed and inundated with health advice? This overwhelm is not helping your health. You see, one day I woke up in severe pain. I and I could not walk. I was dragging myself around the house in my office chair with wheels. I tried Tylenol, the painting go away. I tried Motrin.

quality I don’t want you to learn the hard way like I did.

[00:00:22] The pain didn’t go away. I then remember that an 80 year old cardiologist had told me about turmeric. I rushed to the store and bought a turmeric supplement. After taking only one capsule, about one hour later, I was able to walk again, pain free. This Mara experience made me a firm believer in quality

[00:00:46] holistic remedies, I am Dr. Adeola Oke the body activator. That was me, a nurse, a pharmacist, and a public health professional. I didn’t know that I was suffering from inflammation despite all my years of education. Now I have been able to get to the root cause of my health challenges and I feel great and full of energy.

[00:01:09] I don’t want you to learn the hard way like I did, so I created the Wellness Surge Podcast to share simple actionable changes. That you can make to activate your body to heal naturally. Here we will have conversations about food, fitness, mental health, and all that is in between. Now let’s get started.

[00:01:33] Hello everybody. Welcome to the Wellness Search Podcast. My name is Dr Adeola Oke and today I have with me all the way from Kenya. Annette Manwa. Annette, say hi. 

[00:01:47] Annette Manwa: Hi. Hi, everybody. . 

[00:01:50] Dr. Adeola Oke: All righty. Thank you so much for being here, Annette. Um, Annette is a mom of two and the founder of Ziwa Asili Ltd. She has a Bachelor’s of Commerce marketing degree from the University of Nairobi, Kenya, and she has eight years experience in the banking sector. She struggled with breastfeeding as both a working mom and a stay-at-home mom. That is why she’s passionate about women’s health and breastfeeding. She loves supporting breastfeeding moms with low milks.

[00:02:22] Supply to meet their breastfeeding goals in a healthy way by creating products using wholesome and plants based ingredients that boost their milk supply and nourish them. She also loves sharing information needed to navigate the breastfeeding motherhood journey. Right. She enjoys cooking because it gives her a chance to be creative and she loves to swim.

[00:02:48] Awesome. Awesome. So I met Annette through a program called AWEC, which is the African Women’s Entrepreneurship Cooperative, and it’s like an amazing program that they just put amazing women from all over Africa together. We are all striving to be business owners and making a change and impact in the world. So that’s how I got to know Annette, and I’m just so thankful that I have friends and sisters all over the world and Annette is one of them.

[00:03:18] All righty. So thank you so much for being here, Annette. 

[00:03:21] Annette Manwa: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Uh, this is exciting, . 

[00:03:26] Dr. Adeola Oke: Awesome. Awesome. So today we’re gonna be talking about, you guessed it, right? She’s all about passionate about breastfeeding and stuff. So we are gonna be talking about how to be successful as a breastfeeding working mom.

[00:03:40] All right? Who is struggling with. Right. Who is struggling with that? I know that, um, as a mom of five, I breastfed all of my kids. Right? The first child, oh my gosh. Um, , it was the first time, right? I milk was just not coming. She did not know what to do. We had to use a straw. We had to just book her there, and it was like, The beginning was just like a nightmare, right?

[00:04:04] But eventually she got a hang of it. So that was first child, second child on that one knew what to do. The third child, , because I was working, doing a lot of things. I had to start taking supplements. And I found myself in the emergency room one time because, you know when you don’t do things right, you’re like, ah, lemme solve medicate

[00:04:25] I found myself in the emergency room with low blood sugar because I it. So let’s talk to the expert, Annette. But how to be successful as a breastfeeding working mom so that you do not end up in the emergency room like I did . So let’s be honest, right? As women, we want to do it all. Um, in my case, yes, , and I’m sure in many of your cases, it’s so frustrating when you’re trying to be productive at work and you’re struggling with breastfeeding, right?

[00:04:56] You start to feel guilty and you. May start to feel in inadequate, and then sometimes you may take matters in your own hands and get yourself in trouble. So, Annette, yes, as the breast milk girl, right? , can you share three tips to help working moms be successful at breastfeeding? 

[00:05:19] Annette Manwa: Okay. Hmm. Thank you. Thank you for the introduction.

[00:05:22] I love your story. I love the way you’ve already put it, that you know, as women we want to do it all. And um, one thing I realized as, um, As a woman, you know, you are expected to, I dunno if it’s society, I dunno if it’s Kenya or, uh, I don’t know if I speak for Africa as a whole, but you, it’s like you’re really expected to know what to do so people don’t, uh, you find that when you’re a new mom, you really don’t have the.

[00:05:54] Like the tools, the information to navigate, they assume that because you’re a mo, a woman, you know, it should just snap. And you know, everything just works like clockwork. But it’s not the case because I remember when I had my first child, you know, you are excited about the pregnancy and you don’t think about, you know, what comes after that.

[00:06:14] So when the baby was born, I remember the nurse bringing the baby and you know, you’re like, okay, so what am I supposed to do? , you know, with this person. Yeah, so, you know, they had to, uh, thankfully I, I was in a good hospital, so they, they had, um, the nurses, you know, they really help and you know, they give you the tools, they’re patient with you.

[00:06:37] So they gave me the information I needed, you know, first of all, how to hold the baby, you know, position the baby and all that. So, um, I would say first things first, if you want to succeed as a breastfeeding mom, Once you conceive your baby, number one, your mindset, first of all, like understand the space you are getting into.

[00:07:02] You are, you know, you are going to be in charge of somebody else, like they’re dependent on you and all that. So you need to get like your mind. into that space, like you are gonna be responsible, you know, they’re depending on you for feeding and all that, and you, you yourself, need to understand that you’re also, it’s new to you also and the support.

[00:07:27] And information that you need, you need to start getting it as early as possible. So I would say, number one, get the information, get the mindset ready. Of course, uh, get the information. Then, uh, number two, I would say start planning early If you are a working mom. If, even if you are going to be staying at home, most I can say averagely nowadays, everyone is working at this point, you know, before you are having your first baby.

[00:07:59] So you need to start finding out what are the policies like at your workplace for breastfeeding and all that. Uh, you need to find out. Um, Do they have, you know, things like the mother’s room and all that. These are things that will support you. I know it’s hard when you are a new mom to anticipate all these things, but when you start finding out from your employer, you know what they have in place for you, it helps because planning is the second thing that you need to do.

[00:08:28] You need to plan for your breastfeeding journey and how you plan is, number one, knowing your work policies number. Start budgeting as early as possible for your breastfeeding. Um, you know, tools, accessories, things like the breast pumps, uh, you know, those things are expensive. Oh my goodness. They’re expensive and, you know, if you think that you’ll get a cheap one, you, I think it, it aggravates the stress levels, you know, just.

[00:09:00] you know, skyrocket. I know because I went for like a, you know, you, you, you are in that space. You’re not planning, you’re not, you know, so you’re like, ah, I’ll just get a manual pump, then I will work it. , , you get what you pay 

[00:09:16] Dr. Adeola Oke: for. You get what 

[00:09:17] Annette Manwa: you pay for, what you pay for. You know, I remember struggling to, because I was working at that point, I remember struggling.

[00:09:25] You have to wake up early, you know, I need to pump the baby is waking up. So you know, you’re on one side pumping on this other side. You are, you are breastfeeding the baby. The milk is not coming, it’s not enough. You know, you’re supposed to leave in the next like one hour. So, you know, with that I realized, I quickly realized without, um, like an electric pump, I’m not gonna make it.

[00:09:49] So I remember, and you know, if you have a. I, I hope they’re really supportive because this is where they come in. You know, they ask what can we do? So what you can do is like, put it in your budget, , as I put it in mind, also, you know, they can, you know, boost you and get you a very good breast pump. So number two would be, number one would be mindset.

[00:10:13] Number two, budget for a breast pump. I don’t know. How people do it without, but I, I can only say if you want to press feed for, you know, exclusively for six months, you know, like the W H O regulations which recommend babies are breasted for six months, which is good for their immunity, it is good for their growth and development.

[00:10:36] You know, optimal growth, their brains and all that. And even you’ll see the results in the future. You know, people, you don’t see it now, but you’ll see it later. So I would recommend get a very good pump budget for it, start budgeting early, and um, I would recommend a double pump. Then you’ll get, you know, optimal milk.

[00:11:01] Uh, the third, what would I say? The third thing is to. You know, create a schedule. You need to know how to plan your time. So if your employer has given you, let’s say, you know, your maternity leave, like in Kenya, it’s three months according to the law. So if you have your leave days, some people take now the 60 days, so it makes it four months, you know, to trans, make sure you leave your baby a bit, you know, more grown.

[00:11:31] So, um, what you can do. Plan around your working, um, days. So if you know you have 60 days and you want to exclusively breastfeed, get a schedule, you know, write down your days, you know, the day you’re going to have your baby. Usually, you know, it’s plus or minus two weeks. Um, once, uh, you know, the doctor will tell you and what you can do.

[00:12:02] Start, uh, pumping slowly, immediately. The baby is born. In fact, I always say that First Milk, you know, it helps with the, I dunno if you experience when your baby gets a flu, I don’t know where they get flus at. Yes. You know, when they’re a month old or two months old, that first milk is so important. It has.

[00:12:20] I think the highest antibodies. Yes. Colostrum. Yes, the colostrum. So when, if you have frozen that also, you know, at the beginning you can freeze a bit of it because I mean, at that point, you know, baby is not drinking so much. So you are able to express as immediately as you can, start expressing immediately that week if you have it already in your mind, that.

[00:12:47] You know, you need to do this and you have a goal. Trust me, you’ll be able to do it. The mindset, your mind will just tell you naturally, you know, we need to do this. And you know, at first it starts, you know, with the little drops and all that, but it builds with time. Yeah. So have a schedule work around, you know, the time you have, because I always say the earlier you start pumping, the better because towards the end of your maternity leave, you find you start getting.

[00:13:16] Worked up, even if it’s a month away. I remember being so worked up, the milk was not coming, you know, I’m trying to express today. So my, my husband would go out, he’d come back. So, did you express milk for the baby today? I’m like, no, it didn’t, . Sorry,

[00:13:36] sorry. Excuse me.

[00:13:41] Dr. Adeola Oke: Are you okay? 

[00:13:43] Annette Manwa: I’m okay. Just a minute. Okay.

[00:13:49] Yeah, sorry. So I did express Take 

[00:13:53] Dr. Adeola Oke: your time. Take your time. Sorry. 

[00:13:58] Annette Manwa: I dunno what has happened to my voice, but yeah. So, um, he would ask me when he comes through, mark, so did you express milk for the baby? And I’m like, Yes, I tried, but you know, it’s not coming and you being a new mom, you know, you’re like, why is this happening?

[00:14:21] You know, I’m, maybe it’s the breast pump, maybe it’s the, but it’s just the stress levels and you know, I didn’t know that. I didn’t know, you know, stress levels affect you. The anxiety of, you know, you’re living your baby at home, you’re living your baby. Maybe a caregiver here in Kenya. You know, we use, uh, the nannies and all that.

[00:14:43] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Maybe it’s someone you don’t know. It’s not a relative. So you know, the anxiety of leaving your baby or wondering is my baby going to survive? How is this going to be and all that. But I tried, I tried as much as I could. Then of course, you know, work gets here and it’s now time to go to work.

[00:15:06] Now part of the planning was, um, you know, you get to get into mommy groups. Now, coincidentally, , where I used to work, we, I dunno if it’s the age or what. Four of us were expectant and we gave birth at almost the same time, like a month apart. I remember my boss being so, you know, alarmed, he’s like, uh uh, how do I have

[00:15:32] You know, such young four of you out, you know? At the same time, you can imagine in banking, four of your staff leaving you at the same time, you know? So y’all come back and you know, we’ve been talking during the leave, so at least we know that when I come back I need to. The cooler box. I need to have my breast pump.

[00:15:53] I need to have, you know, um, a way of sterilizing. Then we need to get a room where we can express. That’s the other thing, you know, at that point, the mother’s rooms were not there. Mm-hmm. Where you going to express your milk? So we talked to our boss and . I can tell you, we were either to express in the kitchen.

[00:16:18] You can imagine it’s a public kitchen where the men also come for lunch. So guys, you’re going for lunch. Other people are there for lunch and remember, You’re supposed to express. So expressing means what? Bringing down your shirt or removing it completely , you know. So with time we were given the, uh, the stationary office, you know, it’s just a box, you know, the stationary.

[00:16:45] So at least there you could remove your, your, you know, top and comfortably. Yes. But now there’s no. You see, if you have an electric pump, there’s no power there. So you need your batteries or like rechargeable batteries. You need, um, yeah, yeah. You know, uh, you need a sink. You need, uh, to wash 

[00:17:10] Dr. Adeola Oke: it. Yes. Yes. 

[00:17:11] Annette Manwa: You, there’s, there’s a lot.

[00:17:13] And you need a, a nice table where you can put your pump and all that. And then remember, you’ve been given maybe. 20 minutes or 30 minutes. So you know you’re supposed to squeeze everything there. You know, you’re supposed to eat at the same time. Express the milk. Yes. At the same time, look at the clock and make sure that you get enough milk.

[00:17:34] Yes. So you see you have a target. Maybe today I want to express 400 ml by the time I leave the office, then you know, you are there. You, you’re starting to pump. Then you hear a knock at. Oh gosh. Customers are waiting for you. Your desk, you know, is filling up. You know, you, so you are in the middle of stress.

[00:17:53] It’s stressful. It’s the work environment, you know, it’s not conducive and all that, and that is why I’d recommend plan with your employer. They need to support you. I don’t know if, I’m sure the policies, I dunno if they’re streamlined on your side. 

[00:18:09] Dr. Adeola Oke: It’s different. It’s different. And I think these days they’re more supportive.

[00:18:14] Yeah. Um, I remember I had to, when I was, I was in pharmacy school and I, I just had a baby. She was like three months old. So I had to, I had to like It was what you talked about, like buddies, right? Yes. We were like two of us, or three that we were also breastfeeding, um, breastfeeding babies at that time.

[00:18:28] Yes. And we had a room. Thankful we had a nice room and they were able to cater to that. So I think people are supporting these days. But that was back in 2006. That was, yes. So people are more supportive these days and, and there’s so many accessories these days. Like, um, I used to use something called a boosty egg, like the thing will be one holding up the, I could use my hands too.

[00:18:52] I was. Studying or use my hands to feed myself. So the poster thing will carry the whole thing. So my hands were free and I could be studying with it, or I could be eating, feeding myself during my really short break. So, yeah. So those are really great. Those are great. 

[00:19:08] Annette Manwa: Those are great. Yes. So you say, that’s why I’m saying you have to invest you because.

[00:19:13] Pump needs to have like a holder so that your hand’s free. Yes. So that you can, you can imagine, you know, you have one hand here, you’re trying to express your eating on the other side. Yes. Somebody’s knocking the door, it. It was just exhausting. And then, you know, with time, I think, I can’t remember, it’s one of the bosses got sensitive about the fact that.

[00:19:35] Using that room and you know, it’s stationary, so maybe something could get lost. So we, oh, come on. We closed it out. So we were thrown out, you know, basically, So I remember now telling my husband, I, I don’t think I’m doing this exclusive breastfeeding thing. He’s like, no, no, no, no. I’m going to get you an electric pump.

[00:19:53] I, I, you know, no matter the cost , you know, he went and got it. Now the trick was I had to go for lunch to the kitchen before everyone, so that I sit by the corner, you know, get. Um, we call it, uh, in Kenya, like a cloth which you can cover yourself. Mm-hmm. So that in case anyone c Yes comes in to have their food.

[00:20:17] I have those . Yeah. They can, you know, it’s, it’s not uncomfortable for all of you, so it, it kinda worked, but still, um, You know, the privacy. The privacy, yes. And you know, I dunno how comfortable the, you know, the, the men are. And also actually the, there was a, I remember there was a female colleague who once came in, you know, I was like, okay, ah, this a female, so I can just express, so at the milk is dripping, she’s like, You don’t even have milk.

[00:20:49] You know, if it was me 10 minutes into this, oh gosh, I would have already, you know, killed those bottles. Oh gosh. Like two bottles, you see. 

[00:20:58] Dr. Adeola Oke: Oh gosh. People are so insensitive. Exactly. That’s a good segue into how. Yes. Have there any foods to her that can help increase milk supply? How can you, so for those people, you know, no, no, no.

[00:21:14] That’s one. Like, you know, I’m already stressed, right? That I’m not getting enough milk. Yes. You didn’t have to tell me, did I 

[00:21:20] Annette Manwa: ask you exactly. You know, like why the drops coming so slowly? You know why. You know. So I remember just looking and I was like, okay. Um, I’m not gonna say anything. 

[00:21:35] Dr. Adeola Oke: So, so people, but women like you, right?

[00:21:38] Yes. Are there any foods or herbs that can help increase milk supply? 

[00:21:43] Annette Manwa: Yes, actually, the, they’re quite, um, a number of foods. Number one is to ensure you eat a balanced diet. Um, this is, uh, a thing I always tell new moms. People are really afraid. Adding weight that is, you know, a big wide topic for another day.

[00:22:03] But don’t worry about the weight breastfeeding, like it is a natural process. It is meant to take care of everything. So you eat a balanced diet, eat your carbs, eat your proteins, eat your, you know, fruits, your vitamins, you need everything you need. The nuts you need, you know, what you can do is have, um, Like whole grains.

[00:22:29] Yeah. You know, you can substitute, do oats, do do you know nuts, almonds do cashew nuts, you know, um, add in the, you know, juices, put juices, smoothies, green smoothies, you know, because you need all the ion mm-hmm. , you can, you can get, you know mm-hmm. . Um, so basically you can do that and you can always compliment.

[00:22:56] What you have with, you know, the concentrated, like the BLE tea, you know, they’re. 

[00:23:02] Dr. Adeola Oke: When you say herbal tea? Yes. What is in there? Because remember I got in trouble . I found myself in the emergency room. ? 

[00:23:10] Annette Manwa: Yes. So the herbal tea, you have to be really careful. Not all hubs. Yeah. Um, boost breast milk supply. Okay.

[00:23:20] You know, there’s specific hubs that actually have been used for centuries and they’re proven to get br breast milk supply for you, you know, to increase it and also to nourish your body because, you know, uh, through the whole process of, you know, pregnancy, when you give birth, there’s a lot of nutrient transpire, you know, to your baby.

[00:23:39] So you are left with depleted resources, , so you must replenish and how you replen. Is by eating and you need all the help you can get, you know, from all the foods, from all the, you know, food groups, from all that. So if you have any concerns I would say about the hubs, speak to your doctor. You know, start having those discussions.

[00:24:02] Ali, that is part of planning. You see, that’s why I say planning everything is about, you know, the planning. Ok. So, um, The medical doctors can help guide you, but you know, uh, hubs like Fenrick, Phen, mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, there’s a niece. Yes. And then, you know, you 

[00:24:20] Dr. Adeola Oke: can, the one I took was Phen. And so that’s, I’m gonna go back to that.

[00:24:24] So when you are taking a herb, make sure you follow the directions and make sure you, so the big part is eating. Don’t be saying. Yes. Cannot substitute take to increase milk supply and then you don’t eat food. your blood sugar will go down. You end up in emergency hypoglycemic. Yes, I keep child, child, but , 

[00:24:53] Annette Manwa: but you know, we live to learn everything is, you can’t know everything.

[00:24:57] So what I, I, in fact, I keep saying. It is not a substitute for, you know, these things are not substitutes for food. You must eat food, you know, don’t be so concerned about the weight. It’ll she itself off . Yeah, you need, you know, you need like over five, it’s 500 calories for breastfeeding a date. Just you lose 500 from breastfeeding.

[00:25:23] So don’t worry about the weight. Eat, you know, you can. Uh, I cannot say, I say my doctor used to tell me. , eat responsibly. Don’t sit, you know, with a whole thermos of tea. Don’t sit with eat when you are supposed to eat because I think the people who tend to overdo it, but I would say eat responsibly. Eat your meals, but substitute with snacks because as a breastfeeding mom, you need that extra energy and that’s where the herblet is come in.

[00:25:53] You can have, like for example, as we do lactation cookies, they’re nutrient dense. Made from wholesome, you know, um, ingredients like oatmeal. Flax seeds are in their chair, seeds are in there. You know, you have a bit of panel, a bit of pen, Greek, you have a bit of eggs because you need all that, and you see it’s condensed into one thing that you would really enjoy.

[00:26:18] So you can have a guilt free snack. As a mom. Also, it’s not, you know, you’re not restricted to, you know, you must do this. It’s not a punishment. How, let’s say just, you know, live a little also as you’re breastfeeding. Enjoy your journey. Enjoy it. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:26:35] Dr. Adeola Oke: Okay. So, so you talked about the, I’m sorry, you talked about the breastfeeding cookies.

[00:26:39] You talked about the, that it has the fennel grid, so, which helps boost milk supply. It has the fennel. Yes. Um, it has the eggs, right? Yes. So what does the fennel do? Does that boost the milk supply 

[00:26:52] Annette Manwa: as well? Yes, fennel actually does boost milk supply, and it also, if, you know there are gas issues, it relieves, uh, gas.

[00:27:01] Oh, gas for the 

[00:27:03] Dr. Adeola Oke: baby. Yes. Yes. 

[00:27:04] Annette Manwa: Oh, wow. Even for you, you remember? I remember having a lot of gas when I had my baby. Oh, I don’t remember. I had a lot of gas . 

[00:27:13] Dr. Adeola Oke: I don’t remember that 

[00:27:14] Annette Manwa: spot. , I remember because of the, I was told, you know, I later came to learn as I’m doing this. It’s, it’s the, all the drips, all the medication they give you, all the painkillers, it all will, you know, boils down to something.

[00:27:29] And 

[00:27:29] Dr. Adeola Oke: also, I barely took any medicine , so that’s probably why I said, no, thank you. I’m the pharmacist, but I don’t want your medicine. 

[00:27:37] Annette Manwa: you say you, at least you, you have prior knowledge. But you know, like for me, I had to, to, I started, I went for a natural birth and came out as a CS mom. So it, oh, it was, Whole thinging.

[00:27:51] So, you know, you come out with the Yes. With a number of scars. It’s not just the, the cut, the other scars. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And so, um, yeah, that’s why you need the, the, you know, the, all these hubs and all that and the foods. And also you, I don’t know if you con you did, uh, the first week I remember having constipation.

[00:28:13] In fact, the Oh, yes. Two weeks or three weeks. Oh my. Being a pharmacist. I know. You know the medicine . 

[00:28:21] Dr. Adeola Oke: Yes. You know the medicine to take? Yes. That one I took . That one I took the stool. Thank you. I’ll take the one. I used that one, but the rest I said No, thank you. I’m good. . Yes, 

[00:28:34] Annette Manwa: because they had issues. You know, they make you, I remember my husband had, when I had my baby, he had traveled, so, you know, I was in hospital.

[00:28:41] I came back. You know, you start, I’m so young, I don’t even know what to do. He. Came back after two weeks to, to now meet the baby. And I was still constipated. Like I had not gone through . Wow. Yeah. So I would tell him, hold the baby. Let me go try

[00:29:03] Dr. Adeola Oke: No, they should have given a stool softener. Come on. That’s just brutal. 

[00:29:07] Annette Manwa: It was brutal. It was. I remember. The first time when, when it finally came, oh my goodness. It was like having another baby. All . 

[00:29:18] Dr. Adeola Oke: Oh, goodness gracious. Oh, the things you do it as a mother. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Motherhood. 

[00:29:25] Annette Manwa: Motherhood. So eat, eat will eat your greens, eat your whole grains.

[00:29:29] They help. They really help. And drink lots and lots of water. Yes. Drink your water. Yeah, that one I cannot ever overemphasize because I remember having crazy migraines. I’m telling you this, this whole motherhood thing is, I think there’s no map, there’s no manual. There’s no 

[00:29:51] Dr. Adeola Oke: manual . There’s 

[00:29:52] Annette Manwa: no manual. I remember having, you know that headache that you feel like, no, like my head is gonna explode.

[00:30:00] And it’s because of dehydration. And you know, I, I happen to have a sibling who is a nutritionist and she gave me o a risk. Yeah. And then I drank her water dehydration therapy. Yes. So that was is where you mix, you know, the salt, the sugar, and then you just drink it. And that relieved. And she’s like, you’re, you dehydrated, you’re not drinking water.

[00:30:21] You know, so drink your water. Mm. 

[00:30:27] Dr. Adeola Oke: Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. All righty. So what sips so we know, okay, let me say this. We know how to do what to plan when you want to before as a working mom, right? Yes. We know foods to eat. What types of drink? Some herbs to use, right? Yes. To help build, um, increase milk supply and increase the quality, right?

[00:30:47] So what about engorged breast, right? That’s another thing. Are there any tips you can share for. 

[00:30:53] Annette Manwa: Yes, for engorged breasts, uh, first of all, engorged breasts are when you feel like your, you know, your breasts are so full. Like you feel like it’s, it’s like a brick, you know, on you . So you, sometimes you can’t even lift your arms.

[00:31:09] It’s so painful. It, it’s so painful. And, uh, what, how, how you can go around that is by sticking to your schedule. Mm-hmm. , if you know you’re supposed to pump at this time, please do it. If, you know you are supposed to breastfeed at this time, do it because the, the, you don’t want to know what is on the other side.

[00:31:29] You know, once you get engorged and you can’t, um, relieve it, it becomes, you know, something serious you can get, it’s called mastitis. Mm-hmm. . Yes. And this time you’ll have to go into the er, you know, to get that . 

[00:31:44] Dr. Adeola Oke: Yes. 

[00:31:45] Annette Manwa: So I, I remember that happening to me, you know, as a new mom. At some point, uh, I remember I had a new boss.

[00:31:53] I think this was my second baby, so when I came. From maternity leave, there was a transition and um, and I told you in banking, it can get crazy, especially at the end of the month. So, you know, I’m supposed to be staggering my hours. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , I’m supposed to leave a bit earlier, so I’ve already done my pumping for the day.

[00:32:13] You know, I’ve scheduled it according to, you know, our program and all that. Then as I’m about to leave, the boss is like, no, the cues are too long. You can’t leave. So I’m telling her, no, I must go . I have a. I must go and, you know, breastfeed and they’re like, no, no one is leaving until, you know, the, the banking hall is clear.

[00:32:35] So, uh, I ended up staying two hours extra and by the time those two hours were ending, I was so sick and, you know, they couldn’t see it. I’m trying to tell them, oh, guys, I have to go home. They’re like, no. And you see, I can’t leave to go and express. And I don’t even have the storage because I’d already filled my, whatever storage I had carried.

[00:33:00] Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So I remember getting, like calling my husband and telling him I’m going to be late. And I remember coming home I had to take, I remember cab and I came home straight in my suit, you know, in, we wear a suit straight into the bed because I was so engorged. It is super painful and they brought the baby.

[00:33:23] Imagine you have a small baby who you can’t even hold or touch. They had to move him and put him at my breast. The next morning straight to the er. I was sick. Really? Yes. I got mastitis. Wow. Yeah, so I had to stay home for the next year, the rest of the week. She will do that again. She’ll never do that again.

[00:33:46] I was on antibiotics. Wow. Yeah, because it became a serious thing and because you see support from your employer, support from you see your organization. Wow. That is part of a very big problem. So when I came back, she was like, Annette. Why didn’t you tell me? I’m like, I tried . I tried. And she’s like, no, you should have insisted.

[00:34:11] I’m like, how do you insist? You know, I kept telling you I have to go home and breasted. So you see, if you don’t stick to your schedule, it’s gonna hurt you in the long run. So employers out there, 

[00:34:23] Dr. Adeola Oke: if you leave me , yes. I’m into employee wellness. This is, yes. So this is huge . Yes, 

[00:34:31] Annette Manwa: yes, yes. So what you can do, mm-hmm.

[00:34:34] Yes. If you are engorged number one, massage, get a, you know, warm cloth, massage your, your breasts. Uh, the other thing you can do, put your baby to breastfeed. It’s painful, but you need to release the milk. You know it’s clogged in there. It needs an outlet. Release it if you are pumping. Pump the milk out.

[00:34:57] Mm-hmm. and it, with time, you feel that relief. It comes slowly, but once it, it, you know, it starts coming out, you will feel the relief. Yeah. So take care of your schedules. Stick to your schedules. I know it, it sounds undoable, but you have to just stick to your schedule. 

[00:35:17] Dr. Adeola Oke: Okay. Well, thank you. That, that was, that’s, that’s, that’s, I remember in God’s Bless is not fun and Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:35:25] So if you can avoid it, that would be the best thing. That’s so you don’t have to wanna be telling stories like us . Yes. All right. This has been fun. Okay. Thank you so much Annette. So what is one thing Yeah. That you want to make sure that people take away from today’s conversation? 

[00:35:41] Annette Manwa: Um, what I would love them to take away.

[00:35:45] That with the knowledge, with information, with support, you can actually make it like you will. You will be able to breastfeed for your six month exclusively. It can be done. Even a 

[00:35:59] Dr. Adeola Oke: to do it even a year. Even a year. Yeah. 

[00:36:02] Annette Manwa: But the exclusively, you know? Yes, yes. The crucial you can do it. Yes, yes. And beyond.

[00:36:08] Even up to two years you’ll be able to do it. But the first crucial ones, because that is where the, you know, the rubber meets the road, , you’ll be able to do it. Just plan yourself. And you’ll do it. Thank you for and get the support. Get the support. Don’t be afraid to ask. I think that is, um, the second most important thing.

[00:36:32] Ask. Ask. 

[00:36:34] Dr. Adeola Oke: Ask. ask for help. Yes. 

[00:36:37] Annette Manwa: Ask for help. Yes. Yes. Ask what You don’t know. Even if it sounds, um, you know, like it’s a trivial thing for breastfeeding, ma’am. It’s not, and I always say it is one of the most minimized things. People minimize it. Mm-hmm. . But it is a big deal. I mean, you are growing a whole human being on your breast milk.

[00:36:57] Have you ever sat and thought about how is a small person grow? On your breast milk, you know, from zero to six months they’re able to walk, you know? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So you, you are doing amazing, so you can do it. 

[00:37:14] Dr. Adeola Oke: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. All right. So you talked about your cookies, right?

[00:37:20] Yes. I just, I wanna know more , it sounds like he has eggs, he has this, he has this. Yes, please. As a breastfeeding mom, you need all those calories. . Yes. You need all of those. So, What’s, I just wanna know a little more about your breast, your cookies, your breastfeeding cookies. 

[00:37:37] Annette Manwa: So our, our breastfeeding cookies, as we said, we put, um, wholesome and plant-based ingredients.

[00:37:45] So we do like the oat. Oats. We add in flax seeds, we add in cheer seeds, we do some eggs. We do, you know, brown sugar, the molasses. We do, um, you know, fennel. We do a bit of butter. We do a bit of, you know, margarine because you need also the healthy some fats in there. Yes, so, We do all that and we try and substitute for healthier versions of everything so that you don’t really feel like, um, you know, it’s something unhealthy and it’s very feeling.

[00:38:20] Actually, so when you have one or two cookies, it’s filling, it boosts your milk supply, it’s filling. And also, you know, as a mom, you enjoy it gives you that energy boost you need. It’s something that you can have yeah, on, you know, your day to day. Sometimes you, you need to dash to the clinic to check, you know, baby’s weight.

[00:38:41] You need a quick snack you can have while you are at the clinic. Sometimes you are maybe at home. You are a stay home mom, you. Dash of energy at night. If you are breastfeeding at night, you need a snack. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , you know those are snack. 

[00:38:55] Dr. Adeola Oke: True, true, true, true, true. Yeah. I heard molasses and, and I when you just had a baby, right?

[00:39:01] You have no, like, you don’t have a lot of energy. Your iron supplies depleted. Molasses is quite good for like, Iron, right? Yes. Right. I had some good stuff, like even if you said brown sugar, if people are worried about sugar, there’s pheno Greek in there, which cancels out , 

[00:39:17] Annette Manwa: yes. 

[00:39:19] Dr. Adeola Oke: Sugar. I learned the hard way and my colleagues still this day like, oh, which one did Adeola take?

[00:39:25] Because I don’t wanna end up . So, but so you have the Fen Greek balancing. Whatever sugar Sprite you can get from the, from the brown sugar, right? Yes. And you have molasses in there, which is really good for your iron supply. So that sounds, it sounds like a really yummy, I wish I had snacks like this when I was breastfeeding, like I know.

[00:39:45] Yes, I know. Yes. 

[00:39:46] Annette Manwa: It’s, it’s a yummy treat and you, you know, you can have it guilt free also, you know, like the odds as a mom, you need a lot of b12. Yes. 

[00:39:57] Dr. Adeola Oke: The, you need all of them. . You need all of them. You need all of 

[00:40:02] Annette Manwa: them. Yes. So that you, your body, the new, the ion, as you said, you need ion because you, you remember you’re still bleeding.

[00:40:09] Yes. You’re still the energy levels, it’s all in the ion. Yes, yes, 

[00:40:14] Dr. Adeola Oke: yes. 

[00:40:16] Annette Manwa: That’s why it’s, um, filled with all those ingredients. Great. Great, great. 

[00:40:21] Dr. Adeola Oke: Lovely, lovely, lovely speaking with you today, Annette. I really appreciate it. So how can people get a hold of you and your yummy cookies after the 

[00:40:29] Annette Manwa: show? ? Okay, so you can find us on our website.

[00:40:34] It’s still a work in progress, but you can reach us on www.ziwaasili.com. Or you can also find us on IG @ziwaasili.ke. And, uh, if you’d like to WhatsApp us, uh, our number is +254722938508. Ah, so you can, you can d DM us, find us on our website if you want to talk more. 

[00:41:07] Dr. Adeola Oke: Yeah. Ziwa Asili. Can you 

[00:41:09] Annette Manwa: spell.

[00:41:11] Is, um, first of all, it’s Swahili in Kenya, we have Swahili, and it means a source of nature because, you know, we try to incorporate the natural products into natural ingredients into our products. So, Z I W A A S I L I

[00:41:32] Dr. Adeola Oke: So we go to www.ziwaasili.com, right? Yes. Awesome. Yes. Great, great, great, great. This has been so fun.

[00:41:41] You know, just chatting and taking me back memory lane. Remembering, oh my gosh. My first baby that did not know how to breastfeed. Third one, where I ended up in the ER. Thankfully, my, I, I had twins and I breastfed them, so I had this pillow that I will put one on one side and the other one on the other side.

[00:42:01] Right. Cause I’m like, first of all, it’s saving me money. Come please. Saving money. I know twin, it’s saving money. Yes. And then they’re getting the wholesome nutrients they need to grow. Yes. So I hope you will all take. Um, take Annette up on this offer to kind of give your babies what they need in the first six months.

[00:42:19] Yes. And if you need any help along the way, she’s here to help you and eat some wholesome cookies. Guilt free. Yes. Uh, get some iron in and all the nutrients your body needs through her. Yes. 

[00:42:31] Annette Manwa: I forgot to actually mention, you know, we also have our al Tea and you know, if you tried, fenugreek it’s so on its own it’s bitter.

[00:42:40] Oh my goodness. It’s I took the capsule. Oh, you, you’re lucky you took up capsule. If you do the whole thing of take a few fenugreek seeds, so lemon in water, it’s. So potent. So what we’ve done is, uh, done a blend of different herbs again, like the fenugreek, the fennel, the dill seeds.

[00:42:58] Then we’ve added in a few, uh, flax seeds and then flavored them, you know, with like chamomile. Or ginger or to make it so, it’s palatable to drink. Trust me. You wouldn’t think that you’re drinking , lactation tea, you know? Oh, so it, it makes it, um, very, it’s habit. Mm-hmm. But it is palatable. We, we, for us, our principle is not to sacrifice taste, even if it’s.

[00:43:25] We are not sacrificing taste. So it must taste good . 

[00:43:28] Dr. Adeola Oke: Absolutely. Absolutely. I love it. I love it. That’s how like when I was creating my premium super green as well, like mm-hmm. Taste is important. Yes. I’m a mom. I know how important taste is. We can’t say because we are trying to do greens, you have to taste nasty.

[00:43:43] So yeah. Awesome stuff. Awesome. So it has been so fun talking with you to the Annette, I really appreciate 

[00:43:49] Annette Manwa: your time. Thank you for having, 

[00:43:51] Dr. Adeola Oke: Ah, yes, my pleasure. My pleasure. So it’s, um, see you all. Thank you so much for listening, and I’ll see you on the other episode. Bye-bye. Have a great week. 

[00:44:01] Annette Manwa: Bye-bye.

Outro:

[00:44:04] Dr. Adeola Oke: Guess what? I have a free gift for you. Go to wellness search.com and take the quiz there to find out if you possibly have high blood sugar, or you can schedule a free call with me where I can share one thing that you can take action on to start feeling your best.

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[00:44:29] Information presented here is for educational purposes only, and it is not intended to diagnose or treat any disease. Please do not apply any of the information presented here without first speaking with your primary care provider.

With best wishes to see you thrive. Have an awesome week.